Xion Audio Player

Are you serious abouth this piece of software?

General Discussion about Xion Audio Player

Postby inservo » February 14th, 2009, 2:14 am

To be honest, I don't think that XION is really even in a Beta phase! I installed it because I wanted an easy to skin media player. But the easy skinning is only the one thing. There are several things I am missing:

- a good help function (something that can be activated the standard way: pressing F1)
- a good configuration menu
- an easy skin implementation window
- a detailed documentation for new users.

E. g. when I go to help on this website, it shows me help concerning the skin building process. What the f***?? I wanted help which covers the tool itself. And please don't tell me: Take another player, if you want an easy solution. That really would not be state of the art software devolopment, that is tekkie talk (which is hated by the most normal users by the way).

Also I searched a way to implement a nice looking skin I downloaded. Still have not found out, how to do that. First try to follow Vistas standard dialog and say open the downloaded file with XION as application because it was not packed, zipped or anything. A click on "Choose skin" in the context menu didn't bring the expected results. Then I tried to find out myself what directory in Vista the skins are in (that should not be the normal way for standard users)... couldn't find out. Decision grow to whipe that player from my harddisk

Then I wanted something like a media library, which is quite standard thesedays. Only found a playlist editor in the standard version. Maybe there is a plugin for it but hey, don't you think that something like this should be initially installed with the player itself?

Then I tried to find help on the website and as it turned out, there was none for the topic I searched so I decided to go back to Winamp, which is much more difficult to skin but much easier in daily usage.

Good Bye Xion, maybe we'll see again in a few months. Very sorry, because the skinning approach with PSD files was very interesting

i.
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Postby Lance » February 14th, 2009, 3:10 am

Interesting feedback...

I don't expect I'll be the only one to reply to you.

A few things to cover. Xion is not Winamp. Xion hasn't been around for anywhere near as long as Winamp. Xion is still a baby compared to Winamp. But Xion is run and coded by a single soul who crams as much of his free time into it as possible. There are beta releases coming out regularly and with much improvement. Development moves fast considering it's just one guy.

Just a random opinion here, but Cliff, the creator of Xion is a MUCH nicer guy than the arrogant pricks over at Winamp. Request something to Cliff and he will bend over backwards to meet your requirements.

Xion doesn't claim to be a huge monster of a media player. It's a new concept of skinning which has been created extremely well. The rest of the player is growing with feedback and help from the beta releases. Progress can seem slow at times, but again, it's ONE person working for no profit and in spare time.

I agree with you on documentation, this issue has arisen a few times before. Unfortunately, he doesn't have time to write a whole doc himself. I was considering contributing to that as well as a few others. But despite the fact of no official doc, he does explain each and every release, it's updates and features and how to use them, within the forums. The answers are there, albeit not very easy to find.

I hope you do return to Xion at a later date. Don't feel hate towards it man, it doesn't deserve it. It's a small player which is growing steadily and always improving.

Peace, Lance
I made the Xion Default skin. Ask me questions and stuff.

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Postby xonenine » February 14th, 2009, 2:16 pm

You know, more than 2/3s of my software has no F1 hot key. I was driven to learn and enjoy things like free software that helps me to learn.
I have no desire for anyone to wipe my butt for me, I don't learn much that way. I don't see a checkout here, or a download free trial button, and yet I'm getting to use software that skins using .psds. In addition there is a community of people and resources that make every aspect of this process easier and more fun, most especially Cliff.
In trying to nail down a more fair estimate of my computer programs F1 availability, I have to admit in all reality I don't even use the ( ) F1 key (notice I left out the obnoxious fake curses here).

As far as I can tell, YOU don't know where your Documents/Settings folder is, cause you have Vista. I suggest you google it.

When you use new software, first step is read the manual. If there isn't one, you read the documentation, or go to the forum.If there isn't one, you read the read me. If the read me is in Japanese or German and you dont read it, you STILL try to learn the program.

What the heck are you gonna learn your lazy way, what colors you like?

Good Luck, xonenine :)
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Postby inservo » February 14th, 2009, 9:39 pm

dear xonenine,

have you used the preview button before you posted your thread? Very interesting, that you focus so much on that F1 thing that is only mentioned along the way in my post. As Lance mentioned already, the doc is not easy to find and now I know why ('cause the software is developed by one person and he may not have time to do all instantly).

But PLEASE, let me keep my own way working with software! I don't think that I hvae to follow your superhero learning way because so much software has no F1 key and by the way, that has nothing to do with whiping someones butt!

When reading Lances post I thought "okay, this isn't much of a tekkie community as I thought" but when I read yours, I think I can figure out what kind of people jump around here.

Greetings out to all the nerds, you'll never see me again, idiots!
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Postby logokas » February 15th, 2009, 12:14 am

Wait, wait.

Documentation? For a music player? Honestly, aren't you going a bit over the line here. Don't tell me you need an actual guide to figure out what media buttons do. As far as basic features go, Xion is VERY self-explanitory.

Skins install automatically, as long as the package is named correctly, and Xion has sufficient privileges under Vista / Seven. All you have to do is double click and hit 'Install and Open'.

Yes, Xion lacks alot in the library and plugin department. But you have to understand that Xion doesn't even aim that way. The core of this program is to easily make skins, and i think this is as easy as it could ever get.

If you think we lack documentation, kindly step up and fill the position, make a wiki page. I wonder just how much you'll have to write about.
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Postby OfficerMike07 » February 15th, 2009, 5:01 am

Greetings out to all the nerds, you'll never see me again, idiots!


Based upon your initial impressions, did you think we'd be sad to see you go? :roll:
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Postby ALAS » February 15th, 2009, 5:30 am

:roll:
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Postby Cliff Cawley » February 15th, 2009, 2:58 pm

Hi inservo,

Thanks for posting your thoughts and feedback on Xion. I realise that some of the things you've posted about are very true. Unfortunately as others have said, I only get to work on Xion in my spare time. Sometimes I work 8 hours a day, get home and work another 8 hours on Xion.

As it is just myself working on Xion (and other software), the coding gets the most attention. Documentation usually always takes a back seat, however the forums are usually a great place to ask questions and receive answers. Sometimes its more effective than documentation as usually someone has an answer to something that may have been left out of documentation anyway.

Obviously having a forum is no excuse for having no documentation. I do at some stage need to set aside several hours to just concentrate on documenting everything and then dedicating more hours each week to keep it up to date with any changes.

Its a shame you've decided to leave. Perhaps you could ask some questions about things you are unsure of. The latest beta versions have full integration with Vista and Windows 7, which is probably what you would need to install in order to allow you to easily install the skins.

As I'm not a commercial company I wasn't able to purchase Vista until more recently in order to test things. I only use the install to test Vista as I personally prefer XP. Hence the reason for such late Vista support :(

Anyway, perhaps you'll come back in the future when there are more features and better documentation. If you decide to hang in there and learn things then that's great too, we look forward to it. In some ways I like to think of Xion as the Lotus Elise of Media Players. It looks really awesome and has great basic features. The more sophisticated features are left out or come in later models. Of course there's a point where we overtake the Elise ;)

Cliff :)
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Postby logokas » February 15th, 2009, 8:36 pm

At which point it will become and Aston Martin DB9.

And you know what that means.
I shoot and ask questions later.

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Postby OfficerMike07 » February 15th, 2009, 9:03 pm

logokas Wrote:At which point it will become and Aston Martin DB9.

And you know what that means.


It costs as much as a house?
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Postby logokas » February 16th, 2009, 12:56 am

Except for the price part. >_>
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Postby SLoB » February 16th, 2009, 2:26 am

hmm, rather a tricky one, I would say Lance, logokas & Cliff have gone over the main parts really well, however, I think something additional is lacking but not on Xion's part but on the skinners part.

If a skinner gives up after not really trying or only trying a few attempts at something then they're not going to go very far, tbh if you've given up this early inservo then we don't need you in the Xion community.
As logokas pointed out, its not rocket science in order to use the player given no documentation.

As for things not working on Vista as expected then there are lots of other fully paid software out there that does not conform either, also given the fact that Vista has not been well received even after its been out 2 years already.

If you want to try and make something then ask in the forums if you need help, but remember to read the skinning manual prior to asking questions, the guys on the forum here are good guys, friendly and always willing to help one another. I find it rather amusing you have not even given Xion a real chance or the forum for that matter and quick to condemn rather than try and work on something.

Perhaps you could have offered your services to help prepare such documentation, that would surely be of benefit to lots of people rather than whining about no documentation (especially seeing as if there was documentation no one would read it anyways lol I'm sure we have all heard of the phrase RTFM).

Seriously if you have that attitude then I can't see you getting much out of life.
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Postby Jikaru » February 16th, 2009, 4:45 am

he gave up too easily, let him go, we'll take care of our baby better without him lol.
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Postby Lance » February 16th, 2009, 5:50 am

Very disappointed in your reply inservo. I gave you a polite response as well as everybody else. Surely you're just deliberately spamming us, right? I can't imagine anybody that could genuinly join a new forum and decide that they know enough about every single member to call them idiots, after just TWO posts, with only ONE of them rubbing you the wrong way. How dare you call us idiots with an attitude like yours? You don't know a damn thing about any of us here, or Xion itself. You honestly don't deserve the amount of polite responses you recieved when you fail to even give anything a chance.

*disbelief*

Lance.
Last edited by Lance on February 16th, 2009, 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby xonenine » February 16th, 2009, 7:35 am

Well I apologize to you guys here, I feel embarrased now but I knew he was ranting without giving it a fair try.xonenine :oops:
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