Xion Audio Player

2013 Release?

General Discussion about Xion Audio Player

Postby Myst » January 27th, 2013, 7:06 am

I've downloaded it a while ago, use it, love it. But am wondering, like I am sure many are, if it will ever see an update or new release (even if its for something small)? Or has the software/support been abandoned?

I'm thinking the latter is probably true, given the date of the last update. Though I am not one that will typically download and use software that has no chance of maintenance/updates and will likely become obsolete.

But I'm very fond of Xion and its simplicity and it meets my needs, so would use it regardless. So if there are intentions of an update, is there anything that us users can do to help that along? Programming something, testing, liking a facebook page, donations? What can we do to help?
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Postby logokas » January 27th, 2013, 11:46 am

Spread the word. The more people know about Xion, the better.

As for development, yes, the project has come to a halt for several months now. But there is one thing I will say now that perhaps I should've said a long time ago.

The project has not halted because of the authors lack of time. In fact, Cliff has kept up with his end of development, and if it were completely up to him, we would have a new version already.

However, it is Lance. His redesign of the main skin, a visual and technical upgrade of the default Xion skin, is what is keeping things from starting a steady roll again. Dig around in this forum to find what I'm talking about.

Cliff has become disheartened, because Lance has, for lack of better word, failed us. Several times he has promised to finish his end of the deal, but due to personal life, work, whatever, it has been a broken one.

Don't get me wrong, I like his work, It's the best I've seen in the field, rivaling things like MMD3 in visual quality. But you don't just make promises and then not keep them.

I do not know what is wrong with the current iteration of the new skin that Lance has put this off for so long, but I would be willing to continue where he left off, purely because I want to see this done. I possess a fraction of the skill that he's got, but fuck, can it really be that hard to finish it up?
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Postby Lance » January 28th, 2013, 2:37 pm

logokas Wrote:The project has not halted because of the authors lack of time. In fact, Cliff has kept up with his end of development, and if it were completely up to him, we would have a new version already.

However, it is Lance. His redesign of the main skin, a visual and technical upgrade of the default Xion skin, is what is keeping things from starting a steady roll again. Dig around in this forum to find what I'm talking about.

Cliff has become disheartened, because Lance has, for lack of better word, failed us. Several times he has promised to finish his end of the deal, but due to personal life, work, whatever, it has been a broken one.


That's absolute bollocks. Both Cliff and myself have BOTH put the same effort in to what we have so far. He's kept his end but I have not? You have no idea what state it is in at the moment. So let me tell you. The skin file is huge as it is. Cliff does his work, I do mine. But I'm playing the part of a one-man beta testing field and honestly it's damn hard to keep up with all the new bugs which have come from new features, so I'm sure you can (or perhaps not) imagine how hard that makes creating a skin.

I don't own the code nor do I decide when or where to release it. I have not chained Cliff to a post in a basement. If he wants to release a beta he can do. In fact, he should do just that, with the old version of the skin. That way, I get help with a huge array of bugs, builds get updated quicker, and I can build the skin quicker. It IS a beta after all.

We both have drifted out of contact. No arguments. Completely equal as one. Xion is absolutely not Cliff's priority and neither is it mine. This update has grown to be much larger than either of us had planned. I need help now. There's too many bugs to keep track of.

One last thing man. How dare you publicly call me out as the villain who has failed Xion. I've devoted countless hours upon hours of my own unpaid time to Xion and it's counterparts. What's more, none of that work can even be appreciated yet. Don't you think that bothers me too? I know you're the outspoken voice of reason around here but to say I have failed Xion after all the time and effort I've put into it is a fucking ignorant and disgraceful insult.

I am NOT holding back the release. I AM holding back the skin because I can't keep up with changes and bugs on my own any more.
I made the Xion Default skin. Ask me questions and stuff.

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Postby logokas » January 28th, 2013, 4:06 pm

Yes, I am outspoken and sometimes heavy handed with my words. I did not mean to insult, but every hint I've gotten over the months of stagnation has pointed out to me, personally, that the lack of updates stems from a lack of cooperation/time between you and Cliff.

Perhaps I should not be so quick to point fingers, and I apologize for that.

But fact of the matter is that one of you has to get the ball rolling. You say It's Cliff, he says It's you. Come on guys. I know you both get along, so that isn't an issue.

At this point I don't particularly care if either of you get mad at me for saying these things out loud. If it gets you rolling, good, I'll take a fall for the team. If not, then the project is dead until Cliff gets a new default skin. And that's gonna severely reduce the quality of the base that Xion now is. Your work makes it stand out because at the end of the day, you need a good, well built skin, to make Xion shine with all of its features, and so far no-one else has risen up to the challenge better than you, Lance.

Again, I'm sorry if what I said has made you appear as the villain, but I am just as bitter about the state of this community as everyone else. I just happen to be the only one willing to say something about it.

Now that I have, for better or for worse, I've gotten a response. Finally, something that explains why things are the way they are, and if there is any hope that this project hasn't been put on an indefinite hiatus, gathering dust somewhere in a box, while the skin page is littered with poorly designed mspaint smudges of paint that can't even be called skins.

So for all intents and purposes, I have fulfilled this thread's purpose, at my own personal expense, because I'm the bad guy now, and I hoped it wouldn't come to that. So I won't be saying anything else on this matter.

And if you're swamped with bugs, and need help, speak out. That's what this place is for, after all. We all want to make Xion better, so why should it just be on the shoulders of You and Cliff?
I shoot and ask questions later.

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Postby Lance » January 28th, 2013, 4:58 pm

I've never said it's Cliff's fault, ever. There isn't even a fault. Now that's out of the way...

Yes you have gotten a response from this. I happen to be pissed off, upset, embarrassed...but alas, IN PHOTOSHOP with Xion files at 6am. ¬_¬

Within minutes of finding the next bit to complete though, I've recalled why I couldn't complete in the first place. I'll be throwing whatever bugs I find at Cliff. I've already just requested a new build with a couple fixes so I can continue. However, there are still LOTS of small detailed problems scattered around.

We have a dropbox filled with builds, to-do/fix lists, and random test files. There is organization and there has been contact.

I've told Cliff he can release a beta with the old skin, just for now so people can test out the new stuff. At the same I've also asked him for a new build with some fixes so I can move on. I don't know what the correct move is. It's so close to being done. The main player is done (besides the hue which is still buggy), the playlist is lacking only a couple of elements, and the EQ is built but lacking a few of the new features which may or may not be in the next public. There's essentially two builds we're working towards - the very next one, and build 2.0. A lot of stuff I've designed visually is linked to 2.0 features which I will have to remove/replace. I'm a bit lost in what build will have what features so I'm going to read through all our notes again and get a grasp.

I'm not offended (now at least) so no worries. It's a free player created in free time so there's no reason for shit to get heated, or indeed demanded. We've done what we can and we'll do what we can. I want people to see our work as much as you want to use it.

Peace, Lance
I made the Xion Default skin. Ask me questions and stuff.

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Postby logokas » January 28th, 2013, 5:45 pm

Thank you, Lance. I know time's valuable to you as you have a lot of important work in your life these days. This is, after all, a project out of everyone's free time.

I look forward to seeing what comes out of the next few weeks, no matter how big or small. Any progress is good progress.
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Postby Cliff Cawley » January 28th, 2013, 8:55 pm

Myst Wrote:I've downloaded it a while ago, use it, love it. But am wondering, like I am sure many are, if it will ever see an update or new release (even if its for something small)? Or has the software/support been abandoned?

I'm thinking the latter is probably true, given the date of the last update. Though I am not one that will typically download and use software that has no chance of maintenance/updates and will likely become obsolete.

But I'm very fond of Xion and its simplicity and it meets my needs, so would use it regardless. So if there are intentions of an update, is there anything that us users can do to help that along? Programming something, testing, liking a facebook page, donations? What can we do to help?


Hi Myst!

Xion hasn't been abandoned, just taken a back seat for a while. Interestingly this thread has stirred up some activity and Lance is doing some work on the new default skin while I'm doing some programming to aim towards a new Beta release.

I can't say when, but I'm hopeful you won't have to wait another year for a release :)
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http://www.r2.com.au
http://xion.r2.com.au
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Postby Lance » January 28th, 2013, 10:09 pm

See what you did logokas! You made us work damn youuuusss!
I made the Xion Default skin. Ask me questions and stuff.

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Postby logokas » January 28th, 2013, 11:16 pm

But that's a good thing!

I for one want to see those delicious new file icons.
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Postby Lance » January 28th, 2013, 11:31 pm

So you may be pleased to know that we've both just spent some online time together and within that time has come 3 new builds and an almost perfect hue system now. This was the biggest road block for me so now that it's fixed, I have less excuses. I still have some, but not as big. It's coming...it's fecking coming.

And I hope it comes soon actually because I've also been working on XDJ III which is a monster. I'm genuinely ashamed I ever released XDJ II with such poor graphic details.

So good things are on the way. I shall not promise anything regarding dates or times though. I've received enough lynching for one day ;)

P.S. Ahh those icons. I recall there was a few issues regarding Windows 7 and those things...can't remember if Cliff fixed them or not. W7 hates you for trying to replace association icons. I've had them working for like 2 years, though I had to manually change a lot of them.
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Postby Myst » January 30th, 2013, 10:09 am

I'm glad that something productive came from the post. I'm not a programmer, but my boyfriend is, and I am also pretty active with another software that is in beta (for creating interactive fictions games). I've been doing a lot of beta testing/learning at the same time, and I can only imagine the toll it has taken on the single programmer behind the scenes.

I can really appreciate the time and effort that goes into something like this, and even the downtime when 'life happens'. I hope you guys are able to stick with it and I would be more than happy to share it with our community, as well as on the social media sites as well. Good luck!
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